Until they kick our seats in a plane or scream mercilessly in a restaurant.
But is banning kids from places like airplanes and restaurants really fair?
This question came up recently when a Pennsylvania restaurant decided to ban kids under six starting July 16.
McDain’s owner Mike Vuick sent this email to his customers:
“Beginning July 16, 2011, McDain’s Restaurant will no longer admit children under six years of age. We feel that McDain’s is not a place for young children. Their volume can’t be controlled and many, many times, they have disturbed other customers.”
I can totally empathize.
The other day we were having dinner at a Japanese restaurant. On a nearby table, a child kept screaming at the top of her little lungs, mostly for no reason. Her parents did little more than shush her quietly to no avail.
And I can clearly remember an afternoon spent at the movies with a toddler running up and down the theater aisle, screaming, with parents creating more of a distraction trying to stop him. After a few very loud complaints directed to the parents — “Control your kid!” was the most effective — the entire family left the theater. To applause. (Read Joel Stein’s column, “Baby on Board,” in TIME.)
According to a story in Reuters, banning kids from restaurants and other places of business isn’t technically illegal. (Nowhere does it say you can’t discriminate based on age. Think about 21-and-over hotel pools — I’ve been to one — and discounts for seniors.)
But is it fair? Or right?
I can understand why business owners want to put in place these blanket bans. Who wants uncontrollable kids ruining the experience of other patrons?
But maybe it’s not the kids who should be banned — but their parents.
What do you think?
28 Comments
Though not legal, I totally support McDains! More often than not, parents don’t disclipline their kids, due to the belief that spanking and scolding leads to child abuse. I THINK NOT.
A lot of kids today have no respect for their elders, look at the schools when teenagers called their teachers by their last name, no Mr. or Mrs. ! Totally unacceptable.
When does it start? When parents don’t disclipline at an early age, restaurants included!!!
It would be interesting to see what happens to McDain’s after the ban goes into effect this weekend. Wonder if there will be lawsuits…
it’s about parenting. we’ve been taking my son to restaurants since he was a baby and have trained him (for want of a better term) to behave in restaurants. no screaming, sit up straight, etc. as soon as he started to act up (and, as a parent, you know the signs your child will show before the big blow up) one of us was out of there with him until he was able to control himself.
now, at six, he’s an experienced gourmand with a number of michelin starred dinners under his belt. he knows the difference between eating at the local chain restaurant with our family and other kids his age and eating at a fine dining restaurant.
My mom has said the same thing. We never acted like that as kids. And mostly because I knew what the consequences would be if I did. Then again, we couldn’t act like that in private, either. It wasn’t tolerated.
Then again, I’ve seen parents try to manage their kids in public settings — and I’ve felt sorry for them. Seems like their kids have total control, and I wonder how much of that is their fault as parents… Hard to judge since I’m not a parent…
Matt & Cat: Agree. My kids were taken to restaurants very early in life and know how to behave. I think spanking to gain their attention helped, but I have never had to spank them in a restaurant. They learned the “look of displeasure” from us as parents and knew better than to push the envelope. Too much modern parenting creates problems…the adage of sparing the rod is true. After about age 5, I never had to resort to any corporal punishment other than time out. They knew who was boss. Now that they are older, I respect their opinions and thoughts…I think they don’t mind hanging out with their “old man” every so often. As far as banning them in restaurants, I think it is unfair to those that have well behaved kids, but our society seems to have more kids that are intolerable…no, it is the other way around, more parents that have intolerable kids.
the art of managing your kids in public is very much correlated to how you treat them in private settings. if the expectation of good behavior is always there, then getting them to step up their manners in public is a small task. if, however, they’re allowed to run roughshod at home, then expected to behave like perfect angels in public, the gap might be too great to overcome.
I think it’s not fair for those parents who keep our kids in check, never leave a mess, don’t let them scream, etc. Restaurants reserve the right to kick out obnoxious parents and their unfortunate kids … But an outright ban is like throwing out the baby in the bath water (is that the saying? Lol)
Absolutely agree with you! Don’t take it out on the kids, take it out on the parents who can’t control their kids. Ban them from the restaurant. 🙂 It’s just good etiquette to take your kid outside to calm them down when they are acting up. I’m amazed at home many parents don’t give a damn.
Then again, if this restaurant owner doesn’t want your business, don’t give it to him. There are plenty other restaurants who won’t ban your kids. It’s about choices in the end, and in this economy, he might be foolish for banning anyone who could be a paying customer!
Speaking from experience, been doing the raising kids thing since 1989, it is not that easy to teach kids to be quiet in consideration of others. And it is almost impossible to anticipate every little thing that could possibly set the little guys off. Most of us applaud the parents that at least try though. If on the first sign of trouble the kid is escorted out of the restaurant most people are pretty forgiving. On a plane a pacifier or trip to the lavatory usually work. But it is awful if the kid loses it and the parent appears apathetic, worse yet if they seem to be looking around for sympathy themselves. Now that makes most of us think our blood is boiling. Or the very worst, a kid falls and starts to cry only to receive admonishments of ‘man up’ or getting spanked for crying. Being a parent is hard, everyone gets that, but really all it takes is a little effort and some genuine love and affection for your kids.
Now on to my pet peeve. My son is very well behaved and rarely gets out of control. The church here on the mainland always makes a big deal out of having the kids go to a separate gig. My son wants to sit with me and if that is what he wants then it is OK with me. Why churches make a big deal out of splitting up the family in church is beyond me. My son and I used to love the keiki service at Kawaiaha’o on Sunday mornings. I loved that church for that. It is why I am proud to be a member of that church! Yes, a local Hawaiian church made this haole boy feel at home and loved because of the love they showed my son. You can’t beat that. It was about family being family. Wish my church away from home here in NC had a clue about it.
Banning my kid is like banning me. I’ll never go somewhere that does that.
I’ve often wondered what I would do if my kid threw a tantrum in a public place… I have a hard enough time when my dogs bark at another dog… So embarrassing. I don’t think I’m a bad dog owner, but sometimes my pooches act out and I have to stop them from misbehaving.
You’re right about being forgiving to parents who try. It’s the ones who don’t that I have a problem with.
I see no problem with this whatsoever. Where is this place? I need to make reservations, immediately! ;^D
A friend of mine posted a status in FB once, “If you ever need to find me, go to a restaurant with a screaming kid… I’ll be sitting at the table next to him!”
LOL, love that FB status update! I know a few parents who would say the same thing!
I raised twin daughters who were never “problem” children. I do sympathize with parents who have kids that seem almost impossible to control. I say the restaurant has every right to set their age limit at 6 years old just as I have the right not to patronize their establishment. In this day of economic uncertainty it seems more of a risk that may back-fire on them.
True, true. The restaurant is turning away paying customers. Should be interesting to see what happens.
Parents of well-behaved children might see this policy as unfair but until every restaurant adopts this policy, I don’t see this as a problem. Misbehaving children can spoil a meal for other nearby patrons. Not all children misbehave, but a restaurant can’t know beforehand which do and which don’t. Restaurant owners certainly should have the right to refuse service to children under a certain age.
I wonder what happened at this restaurant that would prompt such a ban. It seems a bit drastic… Then again, maybe folks will choose to eat here simply because they know they won’t be sitting next to a screaming 4-year-old. Who knows. Should be interesting to see what happens.
when I started reading this post I thought, forget the kids, ban the parents…but after reading some of the other comments, my opinion has been swayed somewhat. I can appreciate the parents who try to keep their kids in line. Why should the parents be punished because an infant age child is not happy and is not satisfied with the soothing they can provide at the moment. Then again, a child 3 or older making a scene can certainly be frustrating to bystander and may perhaps warrant a blanket ban. Im not sure what kind of restaurant McDains is, but if the parents had a clue, maybe they might have thought, gee we want a nice night out, maybe we should hire a sitter or have someone babysit our child. Perhaps the blanket ban is a little over reaching. Maybe, instead they should have 2 disclaimers, the normal we have the right to refuse service blah blah blah…, and please be aware that if your child becomes unruly in our restaurant we will ask you to leave.
I like that, actually. I mean, you shouldn’t penalize ALL kids — only the ones who misbehave.
I’ve been on both sides of the fence here. Had a kid kicking my seat fron honolulu to dallas. Then we made the change to baltimore and sumbitch they were seated behind me again this time the mother was behid me and kicked my seat all the way to B’more.
When grandaughter was 3 we went to a friends restaurant, off season a mite late for dining but it was slow slow only one other table in the place. Everytime Pam would comeup to the table she would squeel and giggle not quiet giggles but LOUD. kind of irritated the other table but Pam(owner) was having fun with grandau.
If it’s a Diner or Crackerbarrel style let the kids be kids but please keep them under control, no running in the isles or tantrums. If it’s fine dinning where the average ticket is $100 a head hire a sitter.
Parents should make better decisions when it comes to bringing their kids along. I know parents who drag their kids everywhere, even to places that aren’t appropriate for them. And sometimes when the kids are tired, sick or in an emotional state that would make them less than stellar company. It’s a recipe for disaster.
seperate sections would be just fine thank you.
With soundproof walls?
sadly, as in so many other life situations, the actions of a few screw it up for the many.
Amen.
I was recently at a food court hoping (yeah right) to be able to eat in peace. Food court noise doesn’t bother me. However this time, a kid a couple of tables away sounded like a howler monkey the whole time I was trying to eat my lunch. I got fed up and pretty much finished quickly and stood up to throw away my rubbish. Only at that time did the Mom pick up the kid to quiet her down. If she had only done that 20 minutes earlier I would have been a happy camper.
CAT: 2d post. Not only should this apply to restaurants but all businesses as well. We had an incident where a guy’s kids were horsing around and running all over. They knocked down a sensitive piece of equipment costing over $800 and broke it. No apologies from the father. We had told the kids “no running” several times. We do have a sign about controlling your kids…we have a lot of equipment with sharp edges at kid’s height and some expensive stuff as well. But to no avail, many parents think their kids are angels and need to express themselves…etc.Also, we are a litigious society…thanks to the many lawyers in business. Say, I wonder if law offices allow kids?
Great blog! Sorry to get off subject, but since Nashville is getting a lot of press lately, I’d like to find a great sushi restaurant or Japanese restaurant in Nashville TN. Have you read any recent buzz? There’s a new one called Nomzilla Sushi Et Cetera, but I’ve only seen a few reviews. Here’s the address of this new Nashville Sushi Restaurant , 1201 Villa Place, Suite 101 Nashville, TN 37212 – (615) 268-1424. Thoughts? Thanks!